Sep
14

Speeding, and other traffic fines in Italy

2006 | Filed Under Speeding fines 


PLEASE READ THIS:

I would like to underline that I do not suggest or condone the non-payment of fines. If I did, I would probably end up in big trouble here, and seeing as I live, work and have family here, I would like to avoid such a situation. If, by chance, someone has read this post, the comments and then decided not to pay, then do not blame me if you end up with problems as a result. Any and all advice I have provided to others has been and is provided informally - I am not an authority, and have not made any claim to be. For conclusive advice on the payment of traffic fines received as a result of a trip abroad, I recommend contacting motoring organisations, embassies or the police in your country of origin.

Sorry about the legalish stuff, but I thought covering my back may not be such a bad idea. You never know nowadays and this blog is public (Indeed, I have now been lucky enough to have been accused of being a scammer, I am not, but see the comments below and make up your own mind.) Now you can read the main post.. and the comments!

Speeding, and other traffic fines in Italy

John Folkard, one of the many who have been caught out by the restricted traffic zone in Piza, has posted something about the problem on the travel tips message boards of the UK newspaper the Daily Telegraph. As I cannot link to the travel tips message boards directly, I thought I would simply post the message number and title which is : 721. WARNING TO MOTORISTS IN PISA. You can find John’s message in the Destination section of the Travel Tips message boards which are here, should you wish to follow developments. After reading Check out my updates to this post, but please do try to read everything and the comments:

  • SCROLL DOWN TO SEE UPDATES and YET ANOTHER UPDATE, May 2007, for more info on Pisa, and
  • look at One more update - 18/09/2007, for some potentially interesting info.

20th May 2007: SUGGESTION: If you wish, you can tell me where (Place, street, time, date) you got your fine and I will add it to the Platial Map system. I’d also like to post photos of the restricted traffic zone signs to help others avoid falling into the same trap.

I had a contact via this blog from some people (And I hope they don’t mind my mentioning this situation, but I do think it needs mentioning) who have, in a sense, come face to face with the black side of European unity, in that these people found an Italian speeding fine, written in Italian, lying on their English doormat after the postman had done his thing.

How can you deal with a fine you receive after a stay in Italy?

Now just how do you deal with a traffic fine which you got while you were on holiday in Italy? Well, if you are (un)lucky enough to find a nice little fine stuck on your car windscreen (watch where you leave you car - street cleaning occurs over-night and if any cars are in the way, they get a nice fine - I speak from experience…) while you are in Italy you can simply take it to a local post office and pay it. End of story. Similarly if the police happen to stop and fine you, they too (I believe) will give you a nice little document which can be paid at any Italian post office and many cigarette shops too. This means that as long as you have the time to get to a post office you can sort the fine out quite easily.

A thing called a ‘Casuale‘ (a sort of traffic offence reference number), which is usually written on the fine, provides information with regard to the date that you were caught, the registration of the car you were in and other things, the meaning of which I am not so sure. You should also find the bank account number into which the fine should be paid.

OK, so basically if you get a fine while you are in Italy, you have a sporting chance of paying it at a post office.

What happens though, when the fine drops through your letterbox after you have returned from your hols/business trip in Italy? Well, you should pay the fine, the question is ‘how’. This is where the problems start.

Assuming you are able to understand that the document written in Italian is indeed a fine (I cannot wait until Hungarian police start sending out fines to foreigners!!), the next step would be to work out what to do next. You could just hop on a plane and pop into the post office nearest to the airport at which you have landed, but this is not really practical. Or you could try to discover what you need to do. This is where the fun starts. First, who do you ring? Good question. You do speak Italian don’t you? No? Ah, well, this means, logically, that most people would find it difficult to communicate with the Italian police, assuming you know which one of the three types of police force you should contact. (Answer: The Polizia Municipale, generally if the fine is a minor parking/restricted traffic area matter, not the ‘Polizia’ - the Polizia Municipale and the Polizia are different organisations).

Other Sources of Information/assistance

How about searching on the web? I tried this and did not find anything easily. The DVLA? I searched on their website and got 70 rather unhelpful search results after looking for ‘Speeding fines, Europe’.

The British consulate here in Milan said to phone 0044 8702400009. This, I imagine would be the best course of action, although I have not rung, so I do not know how much help it can be.

The AA or the RAC may be of some help too. Oh, and if you are not someone from a country in the EC, then I really do not know what you could do, if they even bother sending fines to people in non-European countries, that is.

I’m sure plenty of tourists manage to end up being snapped by one of the ever increasing number of speed and/or restricted traffic zone cameras here, so you would imagine that finding information as to how to deal with these things would be quite easy. This is not the case, or so it would seem.

I would love someone to indicate where information on this matter can be easily found. Many people would find it useful.

You could just send me your fine plus the amount due and 100 Euros, let’s say, and I’ll deal with it;-) Any takers?……No, thought not!!

UPDATE:

From 2007, apparently, the DVLA in the UK will receive any fines you have collected in the EC and send them to your home address. They will be in English, but you won’t get points on your UK licence as a result. This is part of a new reciprocal arrangement. It will simplify matters, but means you will not be able to get away with not paying by using the excuse that it was in another language and so I could not understand whether it was a fine or not.

Informally, I am not sure as to what lengths the Italian authorities would actually go in order to deal with non-payment. Current passport checks for those entering Italy from EU are quite cursory, although you could expect problems if you had not paid a fine and then went to stay in the same area of Italy once again, in view of the fact that hotels are required to supply local police with copies of passports. Of course if you receive a fine by way of your countries traffic authorities for an offence in Italy, then non-payment will probably be dealt with in that country.

ANOTHER UPDATE, January 2007(which is the same as a follow-up to this post):

It’s official, the article in the Telegraph I read while I was in the UK would seem to indicate that Europe-wide traffic fines will shortly be with us. The same article is available on-line here. Although this change comes into effect in March 2007, as some who have read this blog will have noticed, the UK DVLA has already been giving out the addresses of offenders to the Italian authorities so they can send victims a nice little fine.

For some not exactly clear reason a number of people who have left comments on my blog have been ending up with fines for traffic offences whilst driving through Pisa. If you happen to find yourself there in the near future, watch out, because the area into which certain cars are not allowed does not seem to be well signposted.

YET ANOTHER UPDATE, May 2007

Restricted Traffic Zones in Pisa

Pisa - I have found and read the bye-law, that came into effect on the 3 August 2005, which sets up the restricted traffic area in Pisa.

There are four zones:

Zone A - S.Francesco;

Via Carmignani - Piazza San Francesco – Vicolo del Poschi – Via degli Orafi – Via Cavour – Via
Case Dipinte – Via Santa Cecilia – Via Battichiodi – Via Calafati – Via Guido da Pisa – Via Palestro
– Via Beccaria – Via Fucini - Piazza S. Paolo all’Orto – Via Vernaccini – Via Coccapani – Via
Sant’Andrea – Piazza D’Ancona – Via San Francesco (da Via S. Cecilia a Via Sighieri) – Vicolo del
Ruschi – Via V. Berlinghieri – Via delle Belle Torri – Piazza Cairoli - Via San Pierino Via del Teatro
– Via Traversa – Via della Scuola – Via del Cuore – Via della Palla a Corda – Via San Lorenzo –
Via Carducci (numeri civici pari Lato Est) – Via E. Sighieri – via De Simone (porzione fisicamente
delimitata) - Via M. Lalli (tratto Via Di Simone/Via Sighieri) – Via G. Giusti – Via S. Bibbiana – Via
delle Maioliche – Piazza della Repubblica – Via Gereschi – Via del Buschetto – Piazza Martiri della
Libertà – Via Mercanti (da Via Case Dipinte a Piazza S. Paolo all’Orto) – Via Verdi – Via del
Giardino – Via Toscanelli – Vicolo Rimediotti – Piazza San Luca – Piazza Mazzini.

Zone B S.Maria;

Via del Collegio Ricci – Via della Sapienza – Via Serafini – Via San Simone – Via Notari –
Via delle Donzelle – Via delle Colonne – Vicolo del Vigna – Piazza delle Vettovaglie – Piazza S.
Omobono – Vicolo del Porton Rosso – Vicolo del Tidi – Via della Croce Rossa – Via Cavalca –
Vicolo S. Margherita – Via Tavoleria – Via del Castelletto – Via San Frediano – Via Consoli del
Mare - via Carducci (numeri civici dispari Lato Ovest) – Via S. Apollonia - Piazza Giordano da
Rivalto – Via San Giuseppe - Via San Tommaso – Via Martiri – Via Capponi – Via Dalmazia – Via
della Faggiola – Via Leopardi – Via Don G. Boschi – Piazza Cavallotti – Via Risorti – Via Collegio
Ferdinando – Via Galvani – Piazza Torricelli – Via Santa Maria (da piazza del Duomo a Via S.
Nicola) – Via Roma (da piazza del Duomo a Via Savi) - Via Porta Buozzi – Via Luca Ghini – Via
della Pergola - Via Trento – Via Volta – Via Santa Lucia – Piazza Locchi – Via Ricucchi – Via
Buongusto – Via Canto del Nicchio – Via Galli Tassi – Via dei Mille – Piazza Buonamici – Via
Corsica – Piazza dei Cavalieri – Via U. Dini – Piazza San Felice – Piazza Donati – Via Oberdan –
via Calducci - Via Consoli del Mare- Via San Frediano – Via Serafini - Via della Sapienza – Via
San Frediano - Via Curtatone e Montanara –- Via del Porton Rosso – Vicolo del Vigna – Piazza
delle Vettovaglie – Vicolo delle Donzelle –– Vicolo Margherita – Vicolo Quarantotti– Via delle 7
Volte – Via P. Paoli -–– Piazza Arcivescovado – Via Corta

Zone C S.Antonio;

Via Mazzini - Via Garofani – Via Titta Ruffo – Piazza dei Grilletti (porzione Lato Sud) – Via
dell’Occhio – Piazza Facchini - Via Toselli – Via delle Belle Donne – Via del Cappello – Via
Sant’Antonio - Via Alberto Mario - Via San Paolo – Vicolo del Tozzi – Vicolo Mecherini – Vicolo
dell’Annunziata – Via Ricciardi – Via delle Conce – Via del Lante – Via San Cosimo – Via del
Borgundio – Via Somari – Via La Maddalena – Via Scardigli – Via San Lorenzino – Via del
Cottolengo – Via Balduinetti – Via Porta Dolfi – Via del Galloro – Via della Qualquonia – Via
Carabottaia – Via D’Azeglio – Via Manzoni - Via Zandonai – Piazza Saffi.

Zone D S.Martino

Via Ceci – Via Giordano Bruno, Via Sancasciani – Via Gori – Via Turati – Via del Carmine – Via
San Bernardo (fino a Vicolo dell’Oro) – Via Kinzica de’ Sismondi – Via San Martino (fino a Vicolo
del Moro) – Vicolo del Moro – Via La Foglia – Vicolo Scaramucci – Vicolo Rosselmini – Vicolo
dell’Oro – Piazza San Martino – Vicolo Mozzo - Piazza del Crocifisso – Via La Tinta – Via Silvestri
– Via Lanfranchi – Vicolo da Scorno – Via Flaminio dal Borgo – Piazza San Sepolcro – Piazza
Maria Clari – Vicolo Mossotti – Via Franceschi – Vicolo Borghese – Piazza C. Gambacorti – Via La
Pera – Vicolo del Torti – Vicolo degli Albiani – Via San Lorenzino – Via Pascoli – Corte San
Domenico A-B-C-D - Via Bovio - Via di Fortezza.

If you have been caught out in Pisa, then check and see whether the street mentioned on your fine is one of those mentioned above. This will also help you to check that your fine is genuine and not some sophisticated scam. As an aside, this bye-law appears to make no allowance for people with bookings accessing hotels in the city centre, despite making quite a few other exceptions. This means that catching out foreigners is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel. A novel new way of extracting cash from tourists - sort of a secondary income stream, if you like. Look out for those warning signs - which should be all over the place, theoretically.

Restricted traffic zone road sign

Below you can see an example of a restricted traffic zone road sign. This sign is in Milan, but it should be similar to the signs used throughout Italy. The top section specifies the hours during which the restriction is in force, (7:30am to 9:00pm) and the bottom sections, in this case refer to loading and unloading restrictions and the length of vehicles allowed to enter the zone. If someone photographs similar signs in Pisa or elsewhere - leave a comment and I’ll get back to you with details of where to send the images so I can publish them here, if anyone would find this useful.

Example of restricted traffic zone road sign in Italy

Fines received while in Rome

Information about paying fines received while in Rome, from the Rome Council site:

Call Rome 060606
One number, a whole city

060606 is the telephone number to call for information on the services provided by the City of Rome.
The service is available in English from Monday to Saturday, from 4pm to 7pm.

18/09/2007 One more update - time limits regarding the notification of offenders

OK, I’ve had a look into this time limits thing a bit more and from what I can make out from the Italian Automobile Club site here.

There is indeed, as Sean commented below, a time limit of 150 days for the notification of the fine, if the individual committing the violation is resident in Italy. This limit extends to 360 days for individuals committing violations who are not resident in Italy, however, these time limits run from as soon as the actual offender has been identified:

Time Limits

In Italian from the Italian Automobile Club site: La Corte Costituzionale, con sentenza 198/1996, ha stabilito che il termine dei 150 giorni, nel caso in cui l’identificazione dell’effettivo trasgressore avvenga successivamente rispetto al momento in cui la violazione è stata commessa, decorre dalla data in cui l’autorità è in grado di identificarlo. -
My translation: Decision 198/1996 of the Constitutional Court established that the 150 (360 - for non-Italian residents) day period in situations in which the identification of the actual offender is subsequent to the moment in which the violation occurred shall run from the date the authority is able to identify such offender.

It appears that the 360 day period starts running from as soon as the police have been advised by the car rental company, friend, etc, who you are, so this means presumably that the police must then send you a fine within this 360 day period, otherwise it is no longer valid.

By the way, the car rental company, friend etc have 60 days to advise the police that they were not driving the vehicle at the time of the offence.

My understanding is that if you have directly received fine documentation that is in your name, you then need to know when the rental company got round to telling the police who you are and then add 360 days to this date so you can check by when the police should send you the fine. If it clearly turns out that more than 360 days has passed, you probably do not have to pay.

In summary:

The offence is committed by someone driving a car that is registered in Italy - the police then have 150 days to notify the car owner.

Car owner then has 60 days to tell the police that the driver was foreign and to supply details of the driver.

The police have 360 days to send the fine to the offending driver.

Let’s assume that the fine arrives at the hire company (or car owner) after 149 days. Then the car owner tells the police that the driver who committed the offence was foreign after 59 days. The police then send out a fine to the foreign driver that arrives after 359 days. This means that the total time elapsed from the offence is 149 + 59 + 359 which equals 567 days. The driver then has 60 days to either pay or dispute the fine or the amount of the fine increases.

What remains unclear is how the Italian police/authorities can prove that they notified you within the 360 time limit. Registered post may be one option, and if you receive a fine by normal post, then you could, in theory and I am not saying that you should do this, simply throw it away and deny any knowledge of it. Things certainly get lost in the post here in Italy - I can attest to this.

If anyone would like to corroborate my interpretation, then please do. I have tried to wade though the Italian law on this, but did not manage to find all the relevant sections, subsections, commas, and/or subsequent modifications to same. Sorry. But you can have a look here to start with, if you can read Italian:
Article 201 - Notification of Violations.

20/02/2008 UPDATE to time limits

Thanks to information provided by Rusty in his comments, it appears as though the authorities have two years to collect fines, but I don’t know when the two year period starts, or when this limitation came into effect.

Whether you decide to sit this period out and see what happens, is up to you, but those in the European Union should perhaps watch out for reciprocal fine collection agreements.

If I come across any more information, I’ll post it here. Sorry I did not cotton on to this before, but, as I now have to point out - I am not an expert on this. If you know someone who is, please, oh, please let me know, and I mention this expert here.

29/09/2007 UPDATE:

This issue has been discussed on several forums:

If you come across any more, let me know.

PLEASE READ THIS:

I would like to underline that I do not suggest or condone the non-payment of fines. If I did, I would probably end up in big trouble here, and seeing as I live, work and have family here, I would like to avoid such a situation. If, by chance, someone has read this post, the comments and then decided not to pay, then do not blame me if you end up with problems as a result. Any and all advice I have provided to others has been and is provided informally - I am not an authority, and have not made any claim to be. For conclusive advice on the payment of traffic fines received as a result of a trip abroad, I recommend contacting motoring organisations, embassies or the police in your country of origin.

Sorry about the legalish stuff, but I thought covering my back may not be such a bad idea. You never know nowadays and this blog is public.

Like to dig deeper?

Comments

189 Responses to “Speeding, and other traffic fines in Italy”

  1. Gabor on September 21st, 2006 12:36 am

    Ciao!
    Just thought I’ll drop a comment on your mention of Hungary… how is this coming here? ;) Anyway, your blog is a nice read, I’ve already picked up a couple of very good infos, thanks!

    Gabor

  2. Alex on September 21st, 2006 2:53 pm

    Ciao back Gabor!
    I did not want to offend Hungarians - it’s just that I know someone here in Italy who is Hungarian and despite her efforts I could not even manage to pronounce Hungarian words, let alone read them. This is why Hungary came to mind. If I got a fine in written in Hungarian I would probably not understand that it was a fine!

    Anyway great to hear that I have a Hungarian reader:-)

    Alex

  3. Stuart on October 11th, 2006 3:23 pm

    I recieved a fine yesterday from municipal police, apparently they want me to pay 110Euros for going through a restricted zone in PISA. How on earth do I pay this fine, my chequebook is only in english…

    Some have said just ignore it… what do i do?

  4. Alex on October 11th, 2006 3:38 pm

    Hi Stuart,

    Yes, you could ignore the fine, but, as they say, ‘they know where you live’ and if the reciprocal agreement comes into force next year, you may find that a new and larger fine will appear on your doorstep, so, why don’t you try phoning the number I mentioned in this blog entry 0044 8702400009 - it’s the DVLA, and see what they can tell you. And please let me know how you get on so I can add something to the blog entry to help everyone else who gets into this slightly sticky situation.

    Good luck.

    Regards,

    Alex

  5. Julie on November 29th, 2006 3:37 pm

    Stuart, I recevied the exact same thing today from the Municipal Police in Pisa for driving in a restricted zone and have to pay €110. How did you do it? We were lost and didn’t even know we were in a restricted zone thanks to those great italian road signs!.

  6. Peter on December 12th, 2006 1:56 pm

    Is this a scam?

    I’ve had a request for Euro 99.4 for restricted zone (which we too didn’t notice) in Pisa and they want paying by bank transfer which will double the cost!

  7. Stu M on December 21st, 2006 4:58 pm

    Bizarrely - I had just received a letter today from the Municipal Police in Pisa for driving in a restricted zone - same 110 Euro fine! I really didn’t see anything indicating that there was a fine-able zone anywhere. I rang the number on the form and a guy was able to tell me that I’d entered a resident-only area.

    Sounds a bit of a scam, really… OK I can’t play the innocent abroad, but it wasn’t obvious. Clearly - if on the same thread there are another couple of people with exactly the same ‘offence’ with the same fine!

  8. Alex on December 22nd, 2006 3:17 pm

    To Peter - as you know we have already corresponded about this and, hopefully, gone some way towards sorting it out.

    To Stu - It does sound as though you are yet another victim of the often confusing and downright complex Italian road signs. I don’t know Pisa, but it looks as though it has even more confusing and complex signs than usual. Not knowing the lingo does not help either, but there is not a lot anyone can do about this.

  9. Loren on December 23rd, 2006 11:03 pm

    Add to the list two couples from California fined by mail 110,4 Euros for driving in a restricted zone. Okay. It was at night. We were lost. Had we been able to determine that there are restricted zones we would happily avoid them. My local banker cannot decipher what portion of “IT 04 X 06200 14021 000002257243″ is the account number. I will try to get clarification by Fax or email. It allows somebody to translate my question and translate a reply. I am thinking that Comune Di Pisa is not motivated to post their restricted zones too prominantly.
    We had an absolutely wonderful experience in April. A beautiful place to visit.

  10. Loren on December 24th, 2006 12:03 am

    I admit that I am a wus. I will not ever set foot in Pisa, but would like to make a good faith effort to resolve the issue. And I have answered by own stupid question. There is a website that decodes international bank numbers (IBANs). It is http://www.xe.com/idt/
    ISO country code: IT
    IBAN check digits 04
    Bank Code 06200
    Branch Code 14021
    Account number 000002257243
    Transit number 06200 14021
    Score one for the Comune Di Pisa Score zero for the gullible and obliging American tourist.

  11. Stu M on January 3rd, 2007 1:11 am

    Cheers Alex. It’s obviously not well signed considering how many people have been caught out in Pisa! Oddly I didn’t remember seeing it in any guide books either.

    Perhaps an EU-wide traffic symbol for ‘congestion charge’ or similar would be a better idea.

    Stu

  12. Alex on January 4th, 2007 11:36 am

    Hi Stu - “an EU-wide traffic symbol for ‘congestion charge’ or similar….” - sounds like a great idea!

    Lobby your local MEP!

    Alex

  13. Trond on January 4th, 2007 3:45 pm

    Hi All

    I got the 110,4 Euro fine for “circulating in restricted traffic zone without authorisation” today. it also states that “the road conditions were such that the offender could not be stopped without causing danger to other vehicles”. I think that this have a faul smell of con men. Do any of you confirmed this or vice versa, that it is an actual fine sendt out by the police??

    Regards
    Trond

  14. Eddie on January 5th, 2007 2:11 am

    Hey,

    I also got the 110,4 Euro fine for eaxactly same reasons, place, banking details as Loren/Trond.

    I was also concerned this was a con, so if anyone knows it’s legitimate - please let us know. I was going to pay and get it over with, but given that I have exactly the same banking details as Loren - how will they know that “I” have paid the fine? There is nothing that would allow them to cross-references one of the many E110,4 deposits in their bank account back to ‘my’ fine???

    Eddie

  15. Alex on January 5th, 2007 11:01 am

    I just wanted to say that the bank details posted by Loren match those of someone else who got a fine as a result of driving in Pisa. This is something I have checked out with the authorities in Pisa, for whom fines are collected by an company called SEPI SpA which was formed by Pisa Council specifically for the purpose of collecting monies owed to Pisa Council. (http://www.sepi-pisa.it/) Mention of SEPI is also made, in Italian, on the main Pisa municipal police site - so Italians can pay their fines. (http://www.comune.pisa.it/polizia/doc/infrazioni.htm)

    As a rule of thumb, if the fine you have has details which match Loren’s and has an email address at the top something like this “…….@sepi-pisa.it”, then I think you can be pretty sure that the fine is genuine.

    Hope that helps,

    Alex

  16. Ann on January 5th, 2007 12:59 pm

    I just phoned Ufficio informazioni and spoke to a nice man who tried to guide me to a website where I could pay my fine over the internet. Unfortunately my webserver couldn’t find it but he also suggested paying by postal order.Quote your fine number which is the number followed by /2006 on the top left of your notice, plus the licence number of your car. This is given on the notice preceded by the word “targa”. I got charged 157 euros for unwittingly going 5km over the speed limit when I was lost and being led everywhere by sat nav!

  17. Stu M on January 10th, 2007 12:42 am

    It’s all very iffy isn’t it.

    So there are a number of us.. all having fallen foul of the non-helpful congestion charge system from the same city in Italy (I only searched on ‘Italy traffic fines’ and came across this site…) - where it’s not simple to pay, and where each person has received a note through the post asking them to pay.

    How much credibility is there to saying, I just don’t *know* if it’s a con or not? There’s nothing with an ‘EU’ marking on it? There’s nothing to say that we’re not being scammed by a ‘mail phishing’ equivalent, because someone read our registration plate?

    OK this sounds a bit conspiracy theory-ish… but given the poor signage - and given the number of correspondents here, it demonstrates that it must be poor…? What happens if we *don’t* pay?

  18. Alex on January 10th, 2007 1:15 am

    Stu,
    I sort of agree with you, but I have spoken to someone working for the collection agency down in Pisa. I deliberately did not provide all the information about the offence, but I was given the missing details correctly . Now, I could be very wrong, but I would not expect scammers to set up a phone line, a website, be able to get full details of cars and those in them on a particular day etc. However, I would like to know how many people driving hire cars got fines, where they were in hire the cars and possibly in which hotel they were staying. I shall look at and compare all the copies people have sent to me again to see if there is anything strange. I could even check with the police in the area to ensure that all is OK.
    I’ll let you know how I get on.
    As for not paying - this is an option, but if these fine are genuine, as I believe they are, you could risk getting a larger follow up fine. I think that the main consequence of not paying may only become evident when you come to Italy again - in that you may be arrested or something like that.
    Seeing as there are now quite a number of ‘offenders’ now, I’ll look into this more closely.
    Watch this space.

  19. Alex on January 10th, 2007 11:53 am

    UPDATE
    I spoke to Pisa Municipal police and was informed that from within the Pisa Council site it is possible to confirm whether a fine exists and even see the photo taken. Only I’m not sure whereabouts in the site you need to go and you may need to register, although not much info is required.

    This is where you can register, I believe as a ‘Persone Fisiche’ - yes, it is all in Italian, go to: https://www.e.pisa.it - then click on ‘Nuovo Utente’ and then ‘Persone Fisiche’ and fill in your details, although the Codice Fiscale obligatory section may cause problems because you would need to get one first………. No, this ain’t simple.
    I could help someone with the registration process if they wish.

    I also asked the Police if they were aware of any con and they said that they were not.

    With regard to the fine documents, I have two copies and both concern different hire cars from different hire companies. The places of residence given are different too. I would say that these documents are genuine, but being able to check via the Pisa council site would be better.

  20. Stu M on January 11th, 2007 12:42 am

    Hmm. I’m considering going to Italy again at some point - though the experience has left me with a rather unpleasant taste! I really would *not* have gone into the charge zone if I’d have known, and had all this hassle! Lesson to learn that you run such risks if you don’t understand the language, but I’d argue that since we’ve all been EU members for a long time, signage which is a bit more graphical/multicultural/pan-euro-language-friendly should be used!

    Thanks Alex for passing on the info though. I couldn’t get the website to work - I’m guessing there’s an ID somewhere in your link that stops it working. I’ll look through the pisa website though.

  21. Sherpes on January 16th, 2007 9:52 pm

    hey, traveling to Italy used to be fun BECAUSE YOU COULD drive on opposite direction in one way streets, drive on sidewalks, do crazy things, park in double and triple row. But the italians have complex of inferiority towards the germans or other rule-loving strict northern europeans and want to imitate them, and now the fun of driving in italy is over.

  22. Alex on January 17th, 2007 12:57 pm

    Well, Sherpes, I suppose that is one way of looking at Italy’s tightening up of the enforcement of traffic offences! I guess you will have to find other countries that are fun to drive in now.

    I would quite like to know just how many Italians, as opposed to non-Italians actually pay these fines…. Although, a few years back a new system was introduced whereby if you did not pay a fine you ran the risk of having your car taken away from you. This would have certainly encouraged more people to pay up, I’m sure.

    Stu M - sorry the enormous link would not, er, link. You could go to the Pisa council site and wander around until you come upon the right section, I suppose, but we are back to the old ‘knowing Italian’ thing. I imagine that at some point Pisa and many others will get round to providing English language and other language versions of their site on air. In the meantime though, these international fines are going to continue to cause headaches for some time to come, I feel.

  23. Richard on January 23rd, 2007 12:18 pm

    I seem to have had the same experience as others. I was actually in Bologna, but the situation was the same - it was the first day of my holiday, I was getting used to the hire car and Italian roads, I got lost, and I didn’t notice the restricted zone.

    All the documentation looks genuine and I can believe I did (unintentionally) commit the offence, but: It took 5 months for the fine to land on my doormat, and the fine is 80 euros but the hire car company have added a 60 euro admin charge. I am not happy about either of these things - does anyone know if I have grounds for complaint on these?

    As regards paying, the hire car company kept my credit card details and apparantly I signed something at the time to say they could recover costs such as this after the event. However, I’ve spoken to my credit card company and they say they weren’t authorised to keep my details or take a payment at a later date. So far no payment has been taken but if anything is my credit card company will help me. Does anyone know anything about this?

    Many thanks for your help, and good luck to others in the same situation,

    Richard

  24. Alex on January 23rd, 2007 8:57 pm

    Richard - sorry to hear you are yet another to have been caught out - at least this time it was not the infamous Pisa no traffic zone.

    Anyway, the 60 Euro admin charge sounds a bit steep. Most of the fines I have seen have come via the local traffic police, whereas it sounds as though yours have been ‘dressed up’ a little by the hire company. This should not have been necessary - they should have taken enough info for you to have got the fine at your house, minus any extra admin charges, at least that seems to have been what usually happens - Bologna could be different though. Maybe the hire company have already settled the fine; in which case you should be required to refund them with the 80 Euros + 1 Euro or so that the local post office charges for processing things like this.

  25. Richard on January 25th, 2007 12:21 pm

    Alex - thanks for your response.

    Yeah, if I end up paying the fine, it won’t be too hard to swallow, but I’m keen to avoid the admin charge. That said, I spoke to a friend who used to work for a hire car company and she said they have teams of people to deal with drivers’ fines and this is how they pay for them, so if I end up paying that maybe I won’t feel too bad.

    I guess I’m feeling philosophical about it all now!

  26. Nick on February 9th, 2007 5:32 pm

    Very interesting.

    I have received two of these Pisa letters with fines for driving where we shouldn’t have. Both were the same night when my wife and I were desperately trying to find a hotel and fell foul of this Pisa zone thing. The letters were by registered post and the fines totalled about 200 euros, which was more than the cost of the car hire.

    My wife wrote back to the Pisa authorities appologising for our ignorance but saying we wouldn’t pay as we were totally unaware of the restrictions.

    We are going to Rome on Sunday for a few days and will discover whether I am going to be arrested for non payment as the hirer of the car.

  27. Alex on February 10th, 2007 4:28 pm

    Nick,
    I would not worry too much about being arrested. Although I imagine you’ll see this reply when you get back from Rome. However, if you book into a hotel again in Pisa, then you may possibly get a visit from the local police - but things move quite slowly here, so I would not lose too much sleep over this. There is more chance of you being visited by the police if you end up back in Pisa some five years down the line, but which time someone may have updated and cross referenced some database.
    The Pisa thing is a little odd, as I understand it up here in Milan foreign cars can enter the city centre. It’s a sort of catch 22 situation down in Pisa possibly - you may be able to drive into the centre if you are booked into a hotel there, but obviously to get to a hotel and book it you may need to drive into the centre. You may be able to use the hotel booking as a way to get off one of the fines you got. You could have a go at writing to them - in English, which would only be right seeing as they send the things out in English.
    Good luck,
    Alex

  28. Nick on February 19th, 2007 3:06 pm

    Thanks Alex,

    We have returned without being arrested!

    On the night in question we were driving a hire-car and didn’t manage to find a hotel room in Pisa as there was a conference using all the rooms in the town - hence all the driving around. We ended up staying out by the coast in an ancient hotel with those tea-towel style towels! (Am I supposed to be drying the pots with these?)

    The letters from Pisa each came with an attached registered postcard - presumably these should have been returned by Royal Mail as proof that we had received the letters? So if we hadn’t written a reply, our receipt of the letters would not have been known.

    Ciao

  29. Alex on February 19th, 2007 10:01 pm

    Ciao Nick,

    Glad to hear that you had no arresting experiences whilst over here!

    As for the postcards, I’m not sure what you were supposed to have done with them. In any event, I doubt whether the Pisa authorities would go to the trouble of seeking an European arrest warrant just because a fine has not been paid - but you never know. With regard to your reply, honesty is the best policy, but……….!

    All the best,

    Alex

  30. George on March 9th, 2007 8:36 pm

    I also have received a notification of contravention, stating that i was circulating in restricted traffic zone without authorisation in pisa.
    They also state that the road conditions were such that the offender could not be stopped without causing danger to other vheicles. Alex has mentioned that a a photo was taken and proof of a fine can be checked.
    My question would be why would they say (offender could not be stopped without causing danger to other vheicles) when the offence was recorder by a camera and if the have photgraphic evidence why is this not attached to the fine as proof.
    I did not sign for this letter so thay have no proof of me actually receiving the Notification, So how would that stand up in a court of law.
    Not paying them is my answer to there poor signs and no photo proof.

  31. John on March 10th, 2007 10:32 am

    I have just received exactly the same sort of notification from Pisa this morning - unfortunately I signed for it before realising what it was. My ‘offence’ was allegedly committed while I was in Pisa in June 2006 so nearly 10 months ago! Oddly, I also received a fine notification in October last year which was paid by Hertz using my credit card details. As it was only 18 euros I didn’t pursue it, but when I look at the paperwork again, the date and time of the offence is exactly the same as this latest fine down to the minute (24/6/06 14:33)! However, the bank and IBAN codes are different on the two documents. I’ll be contacting Hertz to see if I can get any clarification from them.

  32. Alex on March 10th, 2007 3:47 pm

    George - good luck, and as you say, not signing ‘may’ mean that the fine is binned.

    John - I think you, like many, signed without understanding what you were about to get, as most of us would; including me. I think contacting Hertz is the best thing to do in the first instance. I just hope you did not get two fines on the same day!

    To everybody:

    When I was a member of the AA, I was able to ask for free advice on motoring matters from the AA’s legal eagles. I would suggest that someone take legal advice on the subject of paying these fines and their validity both inside and outside the EC. But watch out for this reciprocal arrangement thing within the EC - although I don’t know if its effects will be retrospective in any way.

    If anyone does get round to speaking to a lawyer about this, then please let me know how you get on so I can post something to help everyone out. Thanks in advance.

    Alex

  33. Richard on March 11th, 2007 1:50 pm

    Hi — Same story here as John’s.

    I recieved the letter today asking me for 110,4 euros for circulating in a traffic zone without authorisation. As John hertz paid it for me using my credit card details back in October 2006… or so i thought! I’ll need to confirm it with my credit card people.. Such a pain and 110 euro’s is not loose change.

    I cant find hertz’s letter to me to check that it was at the same exact minute, but I’ll be persuing the issue with Hertz for clarification.

    I like the AA legal advice idea too.. Surely you cant be fined for the same offence twice - or recieve 2 different fines for the same offence?

    Please keep me posted

    Richard

  34. Dave on March 15th, 2007 11:43 pm

    Similiar story here too…got the same fine notice for 99 euro, for an alleged offecnce in June 2006.

    Im residemt in Ireland, so im not sure if the same principals apply here, similar to the UK?

  35. John Folkard on March 17th, 2007 9:52 am

    Further to my earlier message, and seeing how many people seem to be affected by this, I decided to post the same report on the Daily Telegraph Travel hints and tips message board (www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/index.jhtml) to publicise it to a wider audience and hopefully warn people who are planning to go to Pisa. May be if enough people write in, the Telegraph might investigate further!

  36. Alex on March 17th, 2007 10:34 am

    Thanks for that John. I have added something about your post on the Daily Telegraph Travel hints and tips message board from my main post Speeding Fines above.

    Let’s hope something starts moving.

    Alex

  37. Jim on March 19th, 2007 8:16 pm

    Hi, same story as everyone, 110.4 Euro’s for circulating in a restricted traffic zone. The offence is supposed to have happened on the 1st July 2006, is there any time limit for motoring offences i.e 6 months.

    Jim

  38. George on March 20th, 2007 6:20 pm

    To keep you up to date, I have contacted hertz today and they also find it strange that they were not contacted directly regarding any fine whilst driving one of there rental vehicles. They would normaly pay for any fines from my credit card details. So they do not understand why I have received a traffic fine notice directly.
    They are investigating my complaint to see if the Fine is indeed genuine or not.

  39. Mozzer on April 1st, 2007 7:34 am

    These are interesting posts. I received a fine of €170 for a red light offence in august 2006 (I was there but don’t recall any red light offence). The hire car details appear correct.
    What is odd is that the fine comes from European Municipality Outsourcing (EMO) but it has a page header with a poor copy of a web image of the Polizia Municipal.
    It ends with ‘ The present notice is not a notification of a violation and so permits the driver to make the due payment in amicable circumstances thus avoiding the consequences of a notification according to international conventions in force’.

    It was received in the normal post - not recorded.
    It links to a web site where you have to log on to view details - presumably logging on will show you received it?
    http://www.emo.nivi.it

    Views appreciated

  40. Steve PFEIF on April 3rd, 2007 9:06 pm

    Interesting notes. I received 2 tickets from pisa (2 weeks apart) for restricted zone violations that were 7 minutes apart! The violation happened in June 2006! I had no idea what I did wrong while vacationing there. I did get a notice from hertz a couple months ago indicating the Pisa authorities requested operator info on the car I drove…. that cost 18 Euro for each notice. i argued with Hertz, that an 18 Euro Administrative charge from them was steep — but 2 charges for the same info for a violation 7 minutes apart is ridiculous… Hertz refunded oneo the charges…

    I still don’t know wheteher to pay…certainly not 2 99.4 euro fines!

    I guess I won’t be returning to Pisa again!
    Steve

  41. janet on April 5th, 2007 10:44 pm
  42. Alex on April 13th, 2007 9:35 am

    More and more people seem to be being caught out by this Pisa thing. Write to your local MEP time, maybe? It does sound as though this needs to be looked into.

    Alex

  43. janet on April 14th, 2007 1:27 pm

    Hi Alex,
    Have Emailed MEP. I will let you know if anything happens. If it gets looked into it might just mean better signposts, but at least it will help others not to fall into what seams a very unfair trap.

  44. Alex on April 14th, 2007 9:23 pm

    Well done and thanks Janet. Let’s hope this thing gets sorted out and soon. Summer is almost upon us, so many will be heading for Pisa….and ending up with a little ’souvenir’ that they had not expected….

  45. Ross on April 19th, 2007 10:48 am

    Same story,I have just received in New Zealand a registered notice of a 110.4 euro fine this time in May last year having arrived in Pisa at midnight, stayed in prebooked Hotel then driven to Florence in the morning.
    The time of the alleged offence “Circulating in restricted traffic zone without authorisation” must have been after leaving the Hotel and finding the way to the motorway. No signs or any other way of knowing we had done wrong. Again we had a Hertz car and Hertz had deducted 18 euro’s from our credit card “to cover costs of supplying details to to the relevant authority” It is very easy to believe that someone in Hertz is in cahoots with the independant collection agency sepi-pisa to send out dodgy fines and split the proceeds. Best advice seems to avoid both Pisa and Hertz like the plague. Pity-Pisa is a lovely town (if you can take your eyes off the road) and Hertz supplied us with a brand new Mercedes, but the fines totalled more than the hire! someone is making a profit here I think.
    I have e-mailed the only address which is the sepi-pisa one suggesting it is a scam and requesting proof that the offence and fine are genuine. Then I found your dialogue on the net and realised I am not alone!

  46. Alex on April 23rd, 2007 5:32 pm

    Let’s hope Janet’s letter to her MEP gets some results. If this is a fiddle, then it is being orchestrated on a large scale. Nice way of filling local council coffers and making the signs difficult to see means that the income stream is just about guaranteed. Not that I am saying this is the case, but all these cases here do start to make you wonder. Wandering into Pisa by car does not seem to be a fine thing to do.

  47. scras on April 23rd, 2007 6:49 pm

    Hello,
    Same story here.
    Just received two fines from european municipality outsorcing. Fines were driving in a restricted zone in Arezzo (not Pisa), fines were made on 19:25 and 19:33 . So they were only 8 minutes apart ??? No I have to pay € 202. Does someone has any idea wether these are genuine, or has any clarification of some sort? Sanne from Belgium

  48. Alex on April 23rd, 2007 6:54 pm

    Sanne - if you want to hop over to my Englishisin site, you can use the messaging system to send me a mail. I have some scans of the genuine articles so I could compare them for you if you like.

    Alex

  49. Jane on April 23rd, 2007 10:01 pm

    hi scras
    I have had exactly the same problem with two fines from EMO on behalf Commune di Arezzo arriving today - again both 8 minutes apart - 19.04 and 19.12 in august last year- same total 202 euros - in a hire car from Hertz. This is either an illegal scam or a creative way of balancing local authority finances. I saw no signs and have driven in this area of arezzo many times over the last 20 years. I love Italy, particularily Arezzo and the surrounding area, but feel so angry that I would consider a new destination for future holidays.
    Jane from London

  50. Alex on April 23rd, 2007 11:27 pm

    OK, this needs checking out. These double fines are too difficult to swallow. Can someone tell me if they have photos of these blasted ‘warning’ signs. If so, I’ll post them here so everyone knows what to look out for.

    It is starting to sound as though someone is exploiting tourists.

    Alex

  51. Brian Worsdale on May 1st, 2007 8:12 am

    I got a speeding ticket April 2004 just outside pisa, I havent paid it. Will they try a collect it now.
    Great site, Brian

  52. Alex on May 1st, 2007 5:26 pm

    Brian,

    From what I understand the limit for enforcing traffic offence related fines is 5 years. Which means you will not be in the clear until 2009! And watch out for the reciprocal arrangements which are now in force.

    Alex

  53. Morten on May 3rd, 2007 10:08 am

    Hello,

    I visited Italy in July 2006, and received a EUR 93.70 fine from EMO on 1st February 2007 for “Vehicle crossing a limited hours area outside of authorized hours”. I was at the location mentioned, but was not aware to broken any laws. The document looked like a scam (bad print quality on the paper and of the logo) so I decided to ignore and not pay the fine. End of April 2007; I have now received a 2nd letter from EMO threatening that in case of nonpayment after 60 days, the liable amount will increase to EUR 161.70. Entered their website http://www.emo.nivi.it and tried in vain to login to “access information relative to my current situation”. I am still not sure whether this is a fraud or not. Have now spoken to the Danish Consumer Society (Gov´t org). Their legal advisor had not heard a about EMO before, which of course does not necessarily proof any fraud. I will e-mail them a scanned copy of the fine and they will subsequently contact their sister organisation in Italy to verify the authenticy of the fine. Greetings from Denmark.

  54. Howard on May 17th, 2007 1:50 pm

    Guess what? I’m also in the process of querying two “traffic violations” that occurred whilst driving a hertz rented car in Italy, on the “heel” (Commune de Gallipoli).

    One alleged offence was going through a red light (we are sure we didn’t do this), and the other was driving into a “restricted zone” - again, we’re pretty sure we didn’t do this, didn’t see any signs etc.

    Both were reported on the same day, at very similar times (need to check if it’s 8 minutes apart!)

    One difference - we were never notified by Hertz, and only found out the details after seeing the two 18-Euro charges appear on our credit card many months after the actual rental (we rented in August 2006, charges came in on our card on December 2006 and March 2007).

    We’ve got copies of the letters/fax from the Italian authorities to Hertz Italy (in Italian). Only one of them (the restricted zone offence) says there is a fine involved. The other (red light) mentions so sum of money.

    Given that the Hertz conditions say a 15 Euro (+3) fine applies “per parking or traffic fine”, it seems that we shouldn;t have been charged for the red light offence, since there’s no evidence of an actual fine for this.

    The whole thing reeks of a very neat scam by the authorities in Italy. Spot a rented car - note the number plate and time, make up a red light and congestion zone offence or two, send a letter or two to Hertz Italy, get 36 Euros - everybody’s happy. There’s of course no way these alleged incidents can be queried, some 6 or 9 months after they occurred.

    Am still querying this with Hertz.

    Howard

  55. Alex on May 17th, 2007 2:00 pm

    Still waiting to hear what that MEP may say and do….

    On the subject of road signs in Italy in general, yes, they are difficult to see at times. You are often presented with a forest of the things and it can be nigh on impossible to understand what they mean, especially if you are not Italian.

    Not sure why they would have sent you a notification if they did not expect you to pay a fine. Does not make much sense, Howard. Hertz treatment seems erroneous if there was nothing to pay. I’d hassle them over that.

    Pisa does seem to be the hot-spot for these fines, but I imagine, in time, many others will say how they have been caught out by Italian road regulations.

  56. Howard on May 19th, 2007 6:29 pm

    I’m trying to sort things out with Hertz at the moment…

    My original comment above maybe wasn’t as clear as it should have been. The first we knew of a problem was 2 18-Euro charges appearing on our credit card from Hertz Italy. We didn’t get any notification from Hertz or the Italian authorities about reported traffic violations. Only after several letters to Hertz did we get the info that the 18 Euro charges related to traffic incidents, and Hertz then sent us copies of the fax/letters from the Italian police.

    The fact we weren’t notified - simply charged - is one thing that’s particularly annoying.

    I’m also thinking of making this issue known to our MEPs - the whole thing leaves the rental customer with no defense, and the chance that the whole thing could be a neat scam for the Italian authorities to make a fast buck from rental customers makes me think it needs to be questioned and/or investigated.

    So - thanks for putting up this page and sharing some very useful info and experiences!

    Howard

  57. Andrew beresford on May 21st, 2007 10:21 pm

    I have just received a limited traffic area with authorization for travel whilst in Sicily, some 7 months ago. However the fine (104.45 euros) from emo relates to a location that I was not in on the day that they state; hence I could not have possibly committed the crime that they mention.

    How does one go about contesting this, or should one ignore. It does not look official and print is poor quality.

    unfortunately I no longer have the hire car documentation from this holiday 7 months ago.

  58. Alex on May 21st, 2007 10:36 pm

    Howard - the 18 Euro charges seem to be a bit much in view of the fact that you have not been fined, despite these traffic incidents. I don’t think this is a scam by the Italian authorities, but it does appear that foreign drivers tend to get caught easily - and someone somewhere must be benefiting from this extra income.

    Andrew - your case is a difficult one, but not unusual. I have heard of people, Italians, being fined for a driving offence when they were 200 miles away from the location of the offence. In order to contest this, you will need to write them a letter stating your case. It would be best to do this in Italian and I would attempt to contact the hire care company and get hold of copies of the documentation - or even find receipts for hotels, etc that could prove that you were nowhere near the location of the offence.

    Good luck

    Alex

  59. Nadine on May 26th, 2007 10:33 pm

    Drove to Pisa on Thursday (24th May), thanks in combination to our ignorance of the city, and the world’s worst sat nav (you know it’s bad when at one point to tells you to follow the road signs instead of listening to it) we ended up driving into a restricted zone.

    We knew we were doing it. We made one wrong turn, and due to a queue of traffic behind us (and anyone who’s driven in Italy knows delaying other traffic is suicidal) and the narrow streets and one way systems we were past the point of no return.

    Now it’s just a waiting game to see if we get word from the car hire company and a fine in the future.

    I understand the need to restrict access to certain areas at certain times - it’s what keeps the cities beautiful for us to visit. However it would be nice if there was some leeway. We were in the restricted area for less than 5 minutes - and that was spent desperately trying to find our way out of it!

    We would also have been happy to pay an on the spot fine for it - after all we knew exactly what we’d done. Something similar to the congestion charge payment in London - where you can pay up to a certain time after entry.

    Fingers crossed…

  60. Alex on May 26th, 2007 10:52 pm

    Nadine,
    I can wholly sympathise with your momentary lapse. It is very easy to get caught up in the flow of Italian traffic and if you hesitate for a nano second, you will be beeped at. This pressure means that it is inevitable that wrong turns are made and you end up where you did not intend to be.

    It will be interesting to see if a fine arrives - but it does depend upon whether you passed one of the cameras. You may be lucky, but maybe not.

    The congestion charge system would probably be an answer, but so far, such a system has yet to be adopted here, as far as I know.

    Wait and see time, in your case, I’m afraid - as you know.

    Please let me know if a fine does drop through your letter box.

    Alex

  61. Eileen on May 31st, 2007 12:18 pm

    We have just received notification of two parking offences in Pisa which we had made in October of last year. We paid for parking and we were totally unaware that we were in a restricted zone. We were informed by our car leasing company that they had paid the fine and that they had deducted the amount from our credit card which we had used to pay for the car. The letter was dated in April. On checking it appears that the fine has not yet been paid.

  62. Alex on May 31st, 2007 1:26 pm

    Eileen - this double fine thing is a little odd - if you read above, another commenter - Howard is in a similar situation - though not regarding Pisa.
    Are you sure the hire company has actually paid the fines and not just charged an ‘admin’ fee for processing them? If you look at your credit card statement and you find two amounts for around 18 Euros, then I think this refers to the processing fees, not payment of the fines. This may explain why the fines have not yet been settled. As some point you should receive formal notification from the Pisa authorities re the actual fines.
    Hope that helps.
    All the best,
    Alex

    PS Suggestion: Could someone try contacting Tom Tom or any of the other sat nav providers and asking them to add the Pisa restricted traffic zone to their maps?

  63. Morten on June 1st, 2007 11:22 pm

    Hi there, I just wanted to conclude on my comment of 3rd May 2007 whether EMO is a legal entity or the fine that tey had submitted was a refined fraud; with the assistance of the Danish consumer organization, which is gov´t sponsored, it unfortunately (since I now have to pay) turns out that EMO are for real. In fact I already did the payment online by credit card - just as easy as when buying anything else on the web. All the best.

  64. Alex on June 6th, 2007 12:45 pm

    Hi Morten.
    Many thanks for having independently checked out the EMO set-up. Although my own investigations meant that I had reached the same conclusion regarding EMO, it is good to hear a second opinion which confirms what I believed.

    This will be useful info for all those who happen upon this blog entry.

    Alex

  65. Howard on June 12th, 2007 12:41 pm

    A further update: after querying things with Hertz, they agreed to refund the two 18-Euro administration charges “as a gesture of goodwill”. Very pleased with this outcome! Thanks again to contributors to this page, very useful to have this extra info.

    To clarify - the 18-Euro Hertz charges were added as an admin fee by Hertz Italy, following a request from the Italian authorities to Hertz Italy about who was renting the car in question. We have not yet had any direct correspondence from Italy about the traffic fines themselves.

    We queried Hertz about this, and asked if we should expect a letter from Italy for the traffic fines to be paid. Interestingly, they said this might not happen. Was surprised by this!

    So - haven’t (yet) been asked to pay any traffic fines yet, and had the associated Hertz admin charges refunded. Just shows it’s worth chasing the rental company.

    Howard

  66. Alex on June 12th, 2007 1:33 pm

    Thanks for the update Howard - good news about the Hertz admin fees! Let’s hope those fines really don’t turn up.
    “We queried Hertz about this, and asked if we should expect a letter from Italy for the traffic fines to be paid. Interestingly, they said this might not happen. Was surprised by this!”
    I wonder if someone from the Italian authorities has been reading this entry in my blog…..! Hope someone from Pisa council finds his or her way here.
    Blogger (and commenter) power??
    All the best,
    Alex

    PS I’m going to get hold of that Make A Jazz Noise Here Frank Zappa album that you love - I love guitar, especially electric and electro acoustic stuff. One of these days I’ll get round to getting another geetar and trying to learn to play it! (I think my hands are too dinky) I’d love an Ovation electro acoustic model, and when funds permit…..I’ll get one and shave down the neck!! In which case I shall be back to your site which is full of very useful info. I’m glad you dropped in here!! Cheers!

  67. Kelly on June 24th, 2007 7:54 pm

    My spouse was in Italy in June of 2006 and we too received the $18 Hertz charge and the SAME exact wording and numbers for the bank as others posted on here for “circulating in restricted traffic zone without authorization”…. Seems a bit odd that all infractions appear around the same time frame, with EXACT wording and bank numbers. We are from the US- not sure where others were from that posted here…

    The item that I’m stuck on is, if the bank numbers are exactly the same on all of these “transactions/offenses”, then how in the world would Comune di Pisa know if it was my spouse that paid and not someone else???

    I was relieved to see your postings on this matter! Thank you!!!!

  68. Kelly on June 24th, 2007 8:09 pm

    I’m trying to fill out that form mentioned above from e.pisa.it and cannot find a “tax identification number” anywhere on the offense letter…??? what is this number? thanks!

  69. Alex on June 24th, 2007 8:40 pm

    Hi Kelly,

    I think you can leave the Tax Identification number blank, because you don’t have one. I think this refers to the Italian Codice Fiscale - Fiscal Code which everyone who lives or works here legally gets. I shall have a look at the form and check that what I’ve said is accurate. I’ll post again here if it is not.

    All the best,

    Alex

  70. Alex on June 24th, 2007 9:08 pm

    Kelly,

    I’ve had a look at the registration form - in Italian, and the first thing they ask for is the Codice Fiscale - and it is a required field. As you don’t have this, I’m not sure what you need to do. Maybe someone else here can advise you. I do know that there are sites where you can discover what your Italian tax code would be, but I’m not sure you could use a non-registered code. You could try it and see what happens. If you want to have a go at this let me know and I’ll tell you where to go. Otherwise, you could try entering your US (You are from the US??!!) social security number, I think it is.

    Alex

  71. ian on June 25th, 2007 12:36 pm

    Dont bother with phoning the DVLA number, they are not in the slightest bit interested and the miserable little grey man I spoke to said its nothing to do with them.
    I was sent a speeding fine from my holiday last year (on the motorway near Pisa, they seem to be pretty hot round that way,)It looks pretty genuine it came registered to my home address via the car hire company i assume(they have not had any other involvement as far as admin fees charged to my credit card or suchlike) and had a nice B&W photo of me the wife and the kids in our little punto rattling down the motorway at 123km/h. I have not as yet paid (167 euros) as
    1. I dont speak/read Italian and can’t understand it and
    2. I stuck my head in the sand and hoped it would just go away.

    Probably not the most sensible thing to do as we are planning on visiting another part of Italy later this year and wonder if that may cause any problems….anybody had experience of that?I probably should do something about it but there as always that bit of you that wants to stick two fingers up to authority.

  72. Alex on June 26th, 2007 11:38 pm

    Ian,
    Sorry to hear about the grey man - maybe you got him on a grey day.
    It sounds as though you have been hit with a fine from an authority that has not yet got round to issuing fines in other languages. The fine should provide you with information about an Italian bank account into which the money could be paid - see this comment above by Loren | December 24, 2006
    If I were you, I would not worry too much about coming to Italy, especially if you go to another part. There is a slim chance that when the hotel registers your passport with the local police here in Italy, if you stay in a hotel, your non-payment might show up, but I doubt it. The IT systems here are not the most advanced in the western world, but they are getting better. Do please let us know if they mention your fine though - this would mean that things were getting worryingly efficient.
    You could try the ostrich trick, but you might end up with another demand for an even higher amount, although, as I have observed before, I’m just not sure how far the Italian authorities would go to chase non-payment when the non-payer is not from Italy. By not paying, maybe you could help us all find out just what happens when you ignore these things…. Are you a gambling man? I’ll let you decide.
    You could also try sticking two fingers up at the Italian authorities, but they would not understand you. You would get much more attention if you used a single finger - the middle one. I think they can still arrest you for this gesture….
    All the best,
    Alex

  73. ian on June 27th, 2007 2:08 pm

    Plenty of grey days over here at the moment!
    (plenty of grey people here as well)
    To be honest I probably could work out where to send the money to if I made the effort but its gonna cost me if I do!!!So I wont and I will take the gamble, god damn it all I will

    The authorities over here are getting frighteningly good at collecting fines in some areas (100% clear up rates are not uncommen ) and laughingly lackadaisical in others. A postcode lottery aon law enforcement

    Would two fingers work if it was the middle finger on each hand?

  74. ED on July 18th, 2007 6:23 pm

    Hi, in the same boat. Hired a car in Italy last August got a violation in Bologna which still escapes me what for.The ticket came through six months after the event and the hire car company paid it 80euros + 50 admin straight from debit card details.So far no problem,put it down to bad luck. Then two months ago I received two speeding tickets within a week, passed on by the hire car company this time 60 euros admin each one again taken straight from my bank.Despite getting an Italian friend to plead on my behalf to reduce the Admin charge SCICILY BY CAR would not budge. They haven’t paid the fines of 140 euros each (70km in a 50 zone althuogh I swear I drive extremely carefully through both the small villages where the offenses alledgedly happened as they are on the way to my mothers house and they are clearly signposted). I am feeling slightly wary as I go to Italy most years but am tempted to adopt ostrich approach. Hiring from PISA airport this year wish me luck!

  75. Alex on July 20th, 2007 10:28 am

    Ed - yet another victim, I note. I could probably find out what the Bologna fine was for, if y